BBC or Norman Finkelstein: Who is More Despicable?
May 9, 2012 11:08 by Simon PloskerJust the introductory statement for the BBC’s Hardtalk program (available on YouTube) reveals the agenda behind its interview with anti-Israel Professor Norman Finkelstein:
American presidents have long been criticised for being too in thrall to the Jewish lobby. That American Jews influence US foreign policy and that explains America’s unwavering support for Israel.
Note the use of the term “Jewish lobby.” Not the “Israel lobby” as has been used, most notably by Walt and Mearsheimer in their discredited thesis. What does the BBC base its statement on? Such criticism of American presidents has come from a particular anti-Israel strain and is certainly not a universally accepted mantra.
In addition, the BBC appears to work on the assumption that pro-Israel activism in the US is solely a Jewish affair, conveniently forgetting that millions of US Christians support Israel, not to mention high levels of support amongst Americans in general.
In a subtle change of language, the actual phrase used by the BBC interviewer on the program was “The American Jews influence US foreign policy” and not “that,” turning it into a statement of fact rather than conjecture. Could the BBC have changed that one word after realizing the implications?
You might also like: Finkelstein on BDS: A Cult of Dishonesty
As for the choice of Norman Finkelstein as an interviewee on the subject of American Jewish attitudes towards Israel, the issue itself was no doubt prompted by Peter Beinart’s recent commentary. Beinart, however, whether one agrees with him or not, is a credible interview subject. Finkelstein, on the other hand, is avowedly anti-Israel and utterly unrepresentative of American Jewry.
It’s difficult to decide who is more despicable – Norman Finkelstein for his extreme views or the BBC for its deliberately misleading and, some would say, anti-Semitic premise for its program.
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Giora
9:53 am
May 11, 2012
I agree that the BBC seems to have a hard time representing Israel as anything but the agressor in this conflict but actually I thought the presenter made a decent job of pushing Finkelstein pretty hard on some of his assumptions and also his contradictions. HardTalk used to be presented by Stephen Sacker who actually knows something about the mid-east and I remember him giving a Syrian official a pretty hard time a while back. Noentheless except for the die-hard Isreal haters, I think Finkelstein was shown up as whiny attention seeker that he is
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Mikey
2:00 pm
May 11, 2012
@Giora, RE: “die-hard Israel haters”, Norman F. actually managed to get himself on their sh*tlist because in another interview with a BDS actvist a while back he suggested that it was counterproductive.
Go to the execrable blog Mondoweiss and see hoe they were heaping scorn on Finky b/c of that interview as someone who betrayed the true cause.
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Giora
2:11 pm
May 11, 2012
Yes, I do remember him writing that – interesting and appears to show the Fink can do nuance when he puts his mind to it…he may be rabid and oddly driven in his hatred but like many I guess he now makes a living out of the ‘Israel Industry’ – how ironic!
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joy
6:48 pm
May 11, 2012
Please understand the bbc does not represent the views of Britain. I am sorry for their lies and anti semetic statements. I know not all christians in the uk stand with israel but i love israel and thank god for her and pray for the peace of jerusalem and i certainly pray for the church in the uk to recognse what it owes to israel.
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Jean Terry
4:00 am
May 12, 2012
Thanks Joy. I love England and hate to see her anti-Israel. I’m glad that there are many Christians in England who believe as you to. And as I believe as well!
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M.Sphardi
8:16 pm
May 11, 2012
It would be so much more productive if your space had been devoted to a more promising approach: to explain to readers that the whole ruckus about the Palestinian Arabs 1948 has been an outrageous Goebbels-like 64 year panoply of wild exaggerations.
It simply misses UN Ambassador Prosor’s April 24 demystification of the Arab/liberal myth about the Palestinians. More than half of today’s Israel’s Jewish population are 1948 refugees driven from the Arab world. It was their petulant revenge for the failure of the five invading armies of the Arab League to destroy Israel in 1948, even with British help.
Far more Arab Jews were made refugees than were Palestinians and far greater land and wealth were affected. Far more clamor and UN money have gone to the Palestinian Arabs, but scarcely a whisper on behalf of the refugee Arab Jews.
Most Palestinians arrived after 1902, an effort to combat Herzl’s Zionism. It’s all a cunning Muslim plan that Israel has absolutely failed to illuminate all these years. The Jewish mantra seems to be, “The world is tired of hearing about the Holocaust so why would they want to hear about more Jewish refugees?” But ignorant people are taking sides or dying without these important facts.
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Sheldon Tupperman
9:19 pm
May 11, 2012
There is only ONE word for Mr. M. Sphardi’s comment::
The word is
EXCELLENT!
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rodney allsworth
10:37 pm
May 11, 2012
coming from another angle, it has to be noted, that the bastardiasation of the English language done over the past decades by left wing sociallists through our schools all over the world has much to do with the publics inability to pick such speeches for their deliberate un-truths.
rod qld aust
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Oscar
2:13 am
May 12, 2012
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M.Sphardi
4:10 am
May 12, 2012
Both sides have some justification. Sometimes vigorous proponents of one cause or another
get frustrated and even heated when they feel they are not being heard: listeners’ eyes seem to glaze over.
There are many 19th century travelers’ accounts of Palestine that belie most Arab claims.
Westerners make the easy mistake of assuming that other cultures and habits of thought are essentially like their own. A silly example may be pointing out that in Turkey, nodding means disagreement and shaking the head mean assent. Saying essentially what someone else wants to hear is polite in one culture and deceitful in another.
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ray
4:13 am
May 12, 2012
You need to express yourself more clearly.
In any case claims made by supporters of Israel are typically backed up by evidence.
Can’t say the same for the other side unfortunately.
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M.Sphardi
4:29 am
May 12, 2012
Do you really expect a retired professor of English to write clearly?
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M.Sphardi
4:20 am
May 12, 2012
Reflecting on your accute observation about a lame duck president suggests that possibly Israelis and others realize that he is too vulnerable to unknown influences that they may have no chance of coping with. He has nothing to lose and no electorate to woo.
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Jean Terry
3:56 am
May 12, 2012
I don’t understand why people are critical of Israel. They are surrounded on all sides by haters who want to destroy them. They bend over backwards not to hurt civilians, yet when they defend themselves they are the ones the BBC and world media criticizes, not the ones who attack them. It is incomprehensible to me, although I know it is Biblical. Still, I wish these people who criticize and seem to hate Israel would open their eyes to the truth. It is insane!!!!!
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Brian O'Neill
6:36 am
May 12, 2012
Agree completely with Jean. The media/left wing almost ritual bashing of Israel is both incomprehensible and irrational. It’s truth turned on its head, trying to make Israel the bad guys in the Mideast.
Truth of the matter is that 1. Israel is the ONLY true democracy in the region 2. It’s the ONLY country in the region which completely respects the rights of women, all religions, minorities, gays, etc 3. Israel is BY FAR the U.S.’s most reliable and aligned ally in the region, collaborating on a wide variety of security, technology and scientific issues.
All this is in stark contrast to the region’s Islamic theocracies, to which virtually NONE of the above applies! So why the libs support those who diminish women, brutalize other religions, execute gays, and regularly trash virtually every principle the Left claims to hold dear, is 1 if the biggest and most absurd political realities of our time.
In fact it’s so irrational and false that one must unfortunately realize that it must be based on some other agenda—and unfortunately can only be thinly disguised antiSemitism.
Shame on them.
In fact this fairly regular inversion of truth and reality in the Mideast has become so common among the Lefties and “academics” that 1 can only conclude that it’s tobased is
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Oscar
7:06 am
May 12, 2012
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Abraham
6:35 am
May 12, 2012
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David Donahue
6:45 am
May 12, 2012
Typical distortion and “moral equivalence” arguments attempted by the Islamofascists and pretty far from the facts.
“Terrorism has occurred on both sides”, for example would be laughably absurd unless you consider all the innocent Israelis including children and infants, brutally slaughtered by the nutso jihadists over the years. Israel has NEVER ONCE engaged in killing for killing’s sake—the only military actions they’ve EVER taken have been required by the relentless hostility and aggression perpetrated against this noble little democracy virtually since the day they declared their Independence.
The charters of Hamas and Hezbollah still openly call for Israel’s destruction. The Islamic radical fanatics running Iran routinely deny the Holocaust and refer to Israel as a “cancer that must be removed” and are desperately trying to develop nuclear weapons mainly to use on the Jews–which they admit!
The reason that the great majority of Americans strongly support Israel is what President Lyndon Johnson said when asked why the U.S. supported this tiny little country: “It’s the right thing to do”!
And BTW, I’m a Christian who lived in the Mideast for several years, so i know what i’m talking about. All the nonsense from the Islamists are just self-serving lies in the service of their incessant war against the heroic little Jewish state.
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dorothy
1:21 pm
May 12, 2012
Maybe u dont read the quran. It says kill the jews and the cross bearers.
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M.Sphardi
7:26 pm
May 12, 2012
As history unfolds in the Arab world: Libya, Egypt, Syria, even the most obtuse will begin to see the pattern of cruelty and injustice that Arabs are ready to mete out to their own and FINALLY see how the whole saga of the Palestinians has been nothing more than the exemplar of Arab contempt for their own. The Arab League is ready to wreck the lives of now millions of Palestinian Arabs just to make a perverse point and doubtless will continue to do this as history unfolds further.
Contrast this with the way the Israelis have taken care of their own, no matter how distant culturally and how materially and financially stressed the nation has been. It is inconceivable that the Jews could let their own hang out to dry and wither just to make a fanatical point. As we follow today’s events in Syria, it might be well to compare Arab and Jewish humanity.
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Abraham
7:04 am
May 12, 2012
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steve mann
12:09 pm
May 12, 2012
Vanunu is under house arrest because he is a traitor- what would you expect when someone gives out military secrets – whilst under an oath of secrecy-
In the UK there was McClean, Blunt and Philby.
Other than Blunt who was discovered too late the other two fled to the Soviet Union to avoid a trial-
Then there was the Rosenbergs in the USA- Gave atomic secrets to the USSR- They both ended in the Electric Chair- And can you imagine the consequence for any one in Gaza caught helping the Israelis!
In the words of Fathi Hamad, minister of Hamas: “half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other Half are Saudis”. A great deal of them Are Syrians too, but you get the point, right? And most of them came to the country after various arrival of European Jews”
So tell me of the injustice to Palestinians.
Where were the voices when Jordan and Egypt ruled Gaza and the “West Bank”- for 17 years the refugees rotted and festered in camps-(As they do in Lebanon and Syria right this minute)
Where were the cries for a Palestinian state then- How old are you- where was your voice ?
This “Holier than thou , sanctimonious attitude- of “Free Palestine” is blinded by its prejudice.
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ray
1:14 pm
May 12, 2012
Well said, Steve. The whole case for “Palestine” stinks of hypocrisy.
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Abraham
2:36 pm
May 12, 2012
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steve mann
3:28 pm
May 12, 2012
You are so ignorant -it must hurt-
First Vannunu gave his story to a Times reporter- And I have gone thru all that- He is a traitor- but your “blindness refuses to see that- And of course you make no comment on the British and American traitors do you!
Now your total crassness re- 1948-
Those that fled did so on orders from their Arab allies at the time- and there are documents to prove that they were told to flee and when the Jews (Thats how it was worded) had been pushed into the sea- they would have all the land”
Those that did not run now in 2012 make up the 1.5 million Israeli Muslims- living, working and prospering in Israel today in all walks of life from the judiciary to the military and universities , medicine and hold high ranking positions. So thats before your next rant on “Racist country”
And again I ask you- where was your voice when these refugees were under the rule of Egypt and Jordan? You appear to be both deaf and dumb on this point.
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steve mann
3:32 pm
May 12, 2012
Finally Abraham- Ask Hamas and the Muslim world to make peace with Israel-
Tell Hamas to stop firing rockets thus initialing retaliation- stop its suicide bombers-
Tell the “Muslim Brotherhood” groups to change their covenants-
Each one says- They will have the land from the river to the sea.
And they mean just that.
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M.Sphardi
4:29 pm
May 12, 2012
In 1948, the wealthy and educated Palestinian Arabs were astute enough to leave Israel if only to avoid the hostilities. Many thousands more left because they were directed by the Arab League to do so. The message was that powerful Arab armies were arriving to destroy the Jewish State and that the local Arabs could then return to their homes and confiscate the assets of the “defeated Jews”. Most of those who had left in advance of hostilities shrewdly transferred their assets abroad and may be found thriving in the most surprising locales around the world. In 1950, Israel set up offices on Cyprus where Palestinians who wished to move abroad but were afraid of their neighbors’ displeasure could go and sell their homes and assets and move abroad from Cyprus. Jews living the Muslim countries operated similarly except that their assets and properties were usually expropriated, and although they might have been resident far longer than any Palestinian refugee, their plight goes unpled. There is no UNRWA for them, and there is no liberal world sympathy addressing the injustice that they suffer.
It is always and inevitably the specious liberal whining about the injustice done the Palestinians.
The real barbarism is that of the Arab League and the host states who keep the refugees in an inhumane state of limbo generation after generation. Compare their noisy protestations with the Israeli virtual SILENCE that surrounds its 1948-67 absorption of Jewish refugees from theMuslim world. Those Mizrahi Jews are now more than half of Israel’s Jewish population. The Arabs apparently have no shame and would rather humiliate their brethren than quietly do what Israel has done and make of its Mizrahi refugees splendid and proud assets to Israel and the world.
One rarely hears of hate or revenge for this injustice in the Israeli camp. If the world liberal left did not relentlessly support the vengeful Arab claims, the Palestinian refugees might fare much better. Meanwhile, I would argue that the enlightened liberals might well be accused of abetting the Palestinian humiliation and suffering. They might even be charged with perpetuating the misery of the camped Palestinian refugees once 750,000 and now nearly 5,000,000.
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M.Sphardi
5:18 pm
May 13, 2012
In 1900,”Palestine” was the most inhospitable piece of the land in the Middle East. Any traveler’s accounts of the area will make that evident. I sometimes refer to my 1911 Britannica. Yes, the Arab leadership was aware of Herzl’s plan and hustled landless Arabs from Egypt and Syria to farm absentee Arab lands in Palestine in order to thwart Herzl’s Jewish homeland plans.
The malarial swamps and depleted soils kept these farmers indebted to the owners who saw fit to sell their land to the Jews who were ready to pay a price equivalent to that for rich Iowa farms. Frequently, there were hard feelings when, after purchase, the Jews had to litigate the removal of the improvident Arab tenant farmers. The Judean hills were overgrazed for millenia, and according to Prof. Loudermilk of the UN, “A thousand trucks working 24 hours a day for a thousand years could not put back the top soil that was swept out into the Mediterranean.”
The Arab Jews who were expelled 1948-67 lived among the Arabs for more than 2500 years. They know the culture only too well and know best how to deal with their hostile neighbors and, if necessary, match terror with terror.
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Tra la BBC e Finkelstein, chi è più spregevole? « Bugie dalle gambe lunghe
2:36 pm
May 12, 2012
[...] http://honestreporting.com/bbc-or-norman-finkelstein-who-is-more-despicable/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]
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Louisa
5:39 pm
May 12, 2012
That Finkelstein is off his tree! The interviewer did more to expose him as an unreasoned extremist anti-semite than highlight the Jewish lobby conspiracy theory.
I really liked the way she handled him.
His views are based on very unsound premises. He continues to state the words “anecdotal evidence”, but produces none, and his survey evidence is miniscule.
Subsequently, he gives the impression that everything he states is based on guess work.
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giora
6:03 pm
May 12, 2012
Abraham, that is one self-serving argument you have there – the 9/11 terrorists simply had no choice but to murder 3000 innocent civillians; this was the only way to deal with the unspeakable actions of the Israelis. Sounds like a good excuse for any nihilistic creed to go kill whoever gets on their nerves or offends their delicate sensibilities. Is that what you believe, or do only have these rules for those terrorists you agree with?
You say Israel continually threatens Iran but to most observers it is the Iranian regime that talks of getting rid of the zionist cancer – how do they plan to do this without actually killing many of the 6-7 million Jews that live in Israel? Like many Israelis I am not convinced that a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities is the right option at this time but I do recognise it is the duty of the Israeli Govt to defend its own people – you know as well as I do that if Iran stops trying to build these weapons the threat from Israel will disappear. However I suspect that would upset your neat world view about who the bad guys are around here….do us all a favour, let your parents know you have spent too long on the internet and go back to studying for your university entrance exams. You will enjoy shouting meaningless slogans on campus when you get there and terrorising the jewish students along with your other moronic chums..
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Ray
8:01 pm
May 12, 2012
There is only one thing I can about Finkelstein, he should change his name to Frankestein. he is as Jewish as my Dog is Muslim
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ray
7:07 am
May 13, 2012
I made a comment recently about someone’s need to tighten up his written expression, and subsequently a positive comment to Steve.
The most recent Frankenstein comment was by some other ‘Ray’; henceforth if sending any further comments I will use an equivalent name that reflects my dual citizenship.
I trust HR is flexible enough to accommodate this?
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Weekend Links | TRIA
11:36 pm
May 12, 2012
[...] The British Broadcasting Corporation invited professional anti-semite Norman Finkelstein to discuss … [...]
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Abraham
12:29 am
May 13, 2012
9/11 was a terrible crime,no doubt about that.However people miss the point. Why was the possibility that the main motivation for that crime could have been the Palestinian conflict.This,never mentioned in the enquiry,nor the mainstream media at the time.Why?As far as Finkelstein is concerned,please tell,which facts that he claims,are not true.Finkelstein is a jew as both his parents were holocaust survivors,so what Ray means is that he doesnt behave like a jew perhaps,or that he doesn’t look through the same prism as most of the posters on here.But myself,I am as Larry in the Eugene O’neill play,The Iceman Cometh,when he said ” I have always been cursed to see both sides of the question”.Jewish people in general are the nicest, funniest,clever,people on the planet. But we need peace.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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steve mann
11:42 am
May 13, 2012
Abraham- Now stop being so condescending-
I still note how you conveniently avoided my question-
Where was your “Free Palestine” voice when Jordan ruled the “West Bank” (Judea and Samaria) for 17 years.?
How about you answering some points- not just giving out your one sided prejudice.
And again maybe you can talk to your “Palestinian” friends about this-
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steve mann
11:45 am
May 13, 2012
/about this-
“Fri. 29 Jul. 2011 @ 13.06 –
Hamas foreign minister reiterates Hamas’ rejection of two-state solution and commitment to gaining ‘Palestine in its entirety’ by force.
Hamas’ foreign minister, Mahmoud Al-Zahar, recently conducted a television interview in which he once more set out Hamas’ rejection of Israel’s right to exist. He argued that ‘Palestine in its entirety is Islamic waqf land, which cannot be relinquished’:
‘At this moment in time, we say to you, first of all: We want Palestine in its entirety – so there will not be any misunderstandings. If our generation is unable to achieve this, the next one will, and we are raising our children on this. Palestine means Palestine in its entirety, and Israel cannot exist in our midst.’
Al-Zahar also declared that Hamas would view any Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank, or a compromise agreement with the Palestinian Authority, as only a ‘first stage’ towards the destruction of Israel in its entirety. He asserted that this was the key difference between Hamas and their secular rivals, Fatah.
So if you want to, like the rest of us- see PEACE-
Those are the people you should be talking to and demonstrating against- Not the Zionist.
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BBC oder Norman Finkelstein: Wer ist mehr verabscheuungswürdig? « Medien BackSpin
7:49 pm
May 13, 2012
[...] HonestReporting Media BackSpin, 13. Mai 2012 [...]
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steve mann
6:46 pm
May 14, 2012
I have been posting on the Tube video on the Finklestien BBC Hardtalk interview-
This was sent from the “Uploader of the video and know I have been blocked
Uploaders’ Comments (krimane )
@mombser2 – Please stop abusing the comments section with your understanding of history. the audience is quite capable of making their own mind about what is happening in the middle east and we’ve had enough of your rants. I dislike removing comments but you’re pushing your luck sir.! so please,? enough!
I said nothing abusive and all my quotes were from recognised journalists including HR info.
Who said freedom of speech was dead- I do!
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Ilan G
6:53 pm
May 14, 2012
I think that we need to be more circumspect when being critical of the media, and of wild accusations of anti-semitism. The more it’s touted, the less it’s taken seriously.
I believe that Finkelstein was largely put into his place and made to look stupid by the Hard Talk presenter. His rants about “what other country threatens war” – used to change the topic because he was being beaten – was laughable, and hence ignored by the presenter.
On this occasion the BBC cannot be accused of being despicable.
I’m sorry Simon – but some of your criticism here is unfair and invalid.
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