Rosenberg’s Alternate Reality
July 17, 2011 15:45 by Simon Plosker
M.J. Rosenberg
When you hear anti-Israel activists chanting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” or see the maps with the whole of Israel replaced by “Palestine”, those involved in attacking Israel clearly have a problem with Israel as a country that goes beyond legitimate criticism of Israel policy towards the West Bank, settlements or “occupation”.
For some people, however, their politics blind them to the reality. M.J. Rosenberg is one of them. Writing in the LA Times and Chicago Tribune, he argues that “delegitimization is just a distraction”:
So why are the pro-Israel organizations talking about it? The answer is simple: They are trying to divert attention from the intensifying world opposition to the occupation of the West Bank and to the blockade of the Gaza Strip, both of which, by almost any standard, are illegitimate. They are trying to divert attention from the ever-expanding settlements, which are not only illegitimate but illegal under international law. They are trying to divert attention from the ever-louder calls for Israel to grant Palestinians equal rights.
It is intellectually shallow of Rosenberg to claim that pro-Israel organizations across the board (including HonestReporting) are highlighting the issue of delegitimization simply to divert attention away from opposition to Israeli policies.
Sure – some organizations are ideogically invested in advocating certain policies. But many more are not.
It is precisely due to the fact that it has become increasingly difficult to hold a rational debate over the issues that Rosenberg mentions without encountering extreme hatred and demonization of Israel and Israelis that pro-Israel organizations are having to address delegitimization.
Even if it were purely Israeli policies that are driving criticism of Israel then Rosenberg needs to recognize that the criticism itself has gone beyond proportionate or acceptable discourse.
When Israelis hear Zionism being attacked, they hear their right to their own nation state being assaulted rather than criticism of a particular government or Israel’s relations with the Palestinians.
Sorry M.J. but you’re obviously living in an alternate reality.
Rosenberg’s Alternate Reality «ScrollPost.com
5:21 pm
Jul 17, 2011
[...] of Israel policy towards the West Bank, settlements [...]Original article can be viewed at Rosenberg’s Alternate Reality on HonestReporting.Source: Europe & OECD BlogsPublished: 17 July 2011Site: [...]
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Laura
12:53 am
Jul 18, 2011
Rosenberg is also factually wrong. The “settlements” and the Gaza blockade are both legal and legitimate.
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Irene
4:05 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Seriously, what would you expect for the token “jew” who writes for Al-Jazeera … his parents must be so proud.
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Nathan Zafran
7:20 pm
Jul 19, 2011
Irene,
we’ve had Jewish antisemitism, (the worst kind), for forty centuries. Rosenberg is just another self-loathing weasel. I wonder if you are aware that in Israel there are rats who call on the world to delegitimise Israel, to impose boycotts, to question its very right to exist, especially among the self-appointed intelligentia. Rosenberg is small fry compared to the vermin among us!
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Rosenbergs Scheinwelt « Medien BackSpin
4:11 pm
Jul 18, 2011
[...] HonestReporting Media BackSpin, 18. Juli 2011 [...]
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Ethan D.
4:34 pm
Jul 18, 2011
I happened to read the article and I was not shocked. This is one of a growing number of Jews that are Jew haters and join the company of George Soros, Oliver Stone, Jon Stewart, et. al. I hope this man is never allowed into Israel and that the jewish community rejects him just as did with traitor Gold stone.
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Jackie
6:07 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Rosenberg follows in the footsteps of those who went gently to their deaths in the ovens of azi Germany. He fails to see what the Arabs have said consistently throughout their history about Jews, ever since Mohammed failed to convince Jews to convert to his new religion.
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Jack A Serber
6:45 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Rosenberg is a Jewish anti-Semite
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Bat Ami
6:50 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Rosenberg surrendered his right to discuss issues relating to Jews and Israel when he unleashed an anti-Semitic diatribe against religious Jews and the city of Jerusalem.
He’s the author of this rant: “I’ve been going to Jerusalem for 40 years. The secular areas are charming but much of the rest is Jewish Taliban country only without the Taliban’s sweet sense of humor. (Just kidding). No humor, no aesthetics, just lunatics in black. Can’t all these black-clad crazies — of all faiths and delusions — just recognize their common inhumanity and move to one corner of Asia. How big is the Swat valley?” http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/09/the_death_of_jerusalem_women_literally_at_the_back/
Rosenberg’s the guy who called for a return to the 1967 border because “pre-1967 Israel was not terrible at all. In fact, it was pretty wonderful. It is forty years of occupation that has been terrible.” http://www.israelpolicyforum.org/commentary/taking-odds-obama-vs-netanyahu
The guy’s beyond the pale. Pay him no attention.
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Jonathan
9:38 am
Jul 19, 2011
Bat Ami: Your comment is exactly what I mention below. I am completely baffled as to the fact that you dare accuse the man of being an antisemite because he does not like the black clad religious Jews of J’lem or any other place. I may not agree with what he writes in this particular article, but the man honestly has a great point regarding these “lunatics in black”.
There is a clear similarity between these fanatic Jews and Christian fanatics or Musliom fanatics. They are all fanatics. Calling the man antisemitic because he does not like that form of religiousness (neither do I) is so much over the top, that you should be ashamed of yourself. The people he describes are completely insane. People who think that they are proper Jews because they wear black suits and fur hats in the climate you have in Israel, are clearly insane. Before you even go there……I am not an antisemite, I am not a self-hating Jew, I love Jews, sensible ones, just as I respect all sensible people. In fact I have a hard time hating anyone. I do however truly dislike religious fanatics of any kind. Segregated buses!!??? Seriously, what is wrong with these people?
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Steve
7:17 pm
Jul 18, 2011
MJ Rosenberg consistently takes reality and twists it into an anti-Israel direction, either with out-of-context stuff, facts that aren’t true, etc.
I have no idea how else to describe him other than antisemitic. What else would motivate such behavior?
Rosenberg surely knows that 78 percent of historic Palestine (British mandate Palestine) became Jordan. Yet he claims that Israel is 78 of historic Palestine. He HAS to know this. Yet he wrote otherwise. And he does stuff like this over and over and over.
People have to complain to newspapers who publish lunatics like him and complain.
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Dave
7:35 pm
Jul 18, 2011
It makes no difference that Rosenberg is ethnically Jewish. Like many “journalists,” he is a denizen of the far Left. For them, as for their complements on the far Right, ideology is religion. The Palestinians, no matter how many rockets they fire or suicide bombers they ignite, are the “poor and downtrodden.” Thus, they must be supported at all costs over the powerful, successful Israelis with the big, bad U.S. on their side. Hamas and Hezbollah can talk about marching the Jews into the sea all they want, and Rosenberg and people like him will not care. There is no reasoning with such people. Israel simply needs to refute their arguments and expose their monumental bias.
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Daniel Katzen
7:36 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Here is a letter I wrote to the LA Times editor in response to Rosenberg’s column. My original letter was twice as long, but I wanted to get it into the Times’ 150-word limit.
Deligitimization of Israel is neither “archaic”, “silly” nor a “clever distraction”. The Arabs even co-opted the term “Palestinians”, originally used demeaningly by the British to describe native Jews in Palestine, in 1963 in an attempt to erase Jewish history. The “Palestinian” effort at erasing Jewish presence in Palestine includes archaeological and historical fabrications that no Jews were living in Palestine 3000 years before Arabs. The “Palestinians” do seek Israel’s elimination, as they clearly state nonstop that they do not accept the “Zionist entity”. The constant indoctrination of their youth to hate Jews and Israelis also works towards deligitimization. UN passage of more Security Council resolutions condemning Israel than all other member nations combined, including true human rights violators China, Sudan, North Korea and virtually every Arab country, caps the effort. Mr. Rosenberg does no one any service by ignoring these facts in Israel’s 63-year fight to stay alive.
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Rostislav
8:04 pm
Jul 18, 2011
Rosenberg is a plain demagogue with the usual loud cries and no proof: “by almost any standard”, “under international law” – standards and laws, my foot! The skunk knows perfectly well, that he can’t quote a single example to prove his idiotic lies – and still just can’t stop to use Goebbels-old stamps, because his arsenal has nothing else. Loathsome type. Rostislav, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
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Miriam
10:37 pm
Jul 18, 2011
He’s just “kissing up” to the current majority to advance himself. No morals, no proof, no brains. If this were the time of the Inquisition, he’d be the first to convert and sing the praises of the church. Every age has amoral loudmouths like this one…
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Harvey Rogers
11:26 pm
Jul 18, 2011
History is replete with Jewish traitors but it seems that currently we have a bumper crop of them. I have attempted to understand what motivates them.
I concluded that a common thread is that being Jewish carries burdens. There are irrational hatreds used against you about which you are helpless to change. You are blamed for killing Christ. Never mind that whatever happened, occurred about 2000 years ago, it is still used as a reason to hate and persecute you. The total lie that Jews use non Jewish blood for ritual purposes is beyond a lie in that it is totally the opposite of the facts in that the ingestion of any kind of blood is strictly prohibited by Jewish law.(Halacchah). The insane claim of a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world persists, inspite of the fact that Jews for thousands of years have been the most helpless and victimized people. After WWII the German General Von Blaskiewicz observed. “We killed millions of them and they were unable to stop it, and nobody came to their aid. How could we have thought they were so powerful ?”
By turning against the Jewish people the traitors hope to avoid these charges. They say to the world, “I’m a good one, I’m on your side don’t include me in the group that is to be hated and persecuted.”
Then, like many other traitors in history, they find they can be well compensated for their treachery, so they turn it into a business.
When they betray their country they can be executed. When they betray the Jewish people, nothing bad happens to them.
Rosenberg will go on collecting money from Al Jazeera and any other Muslim causes that find him useful, and nothing bad will happen to him, and that’s too bad.
Harvey Rogers
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Steven Kalka
2:40 am
Jul 19, 2011
This man is a turncoat Jew, and factually wrong. The West Bank and Gaza are legitimate, because Israel acquired them fighting a war of defense, not a war of conquest. International law draws a distinction, and awards greater title to the defender.
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Allan Griesdorf
5:24 am
Jul 19, 2011
Self-hating Jews like Rosenberg, …… are sad, sad specimens. They are the Anti-Semites crowning achievement, because they have internalized the hateful lies expounded for 2000 years about the “evil Jews” and of course Israel is a simply a euphemism for all this hatred
Sorry, Rosenberg and your ilk, you are terribly sad and very marginal people.
There was news to-day about a refugee camp in Sudan the largest in the world, they say, housing 400,000+ people and many, especially chilren, are dying of malnutrition.
Where in Hell is your voice, Rosenberg ? Quiet, because you can’t blame Israel ?
Where are the fat-cat Arabs with their obscene wealth obtained from gouging all of us on oil prices ? Still carousing in London brothels, I guess.
Can’t they spare some change ?
You have to be blind & deaf not to notice….. OR…… a self-hating Jew who prefers concentrating on Israel bashing above all else !
JE VOUS ACCUSE !!
Allan Griesdorf
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Jonathan
7:28 am
Jul 19, 2011
It can really get tiresome to read some of the comments following the piece about Rosenberg.
“Rosenberg is an antisemite”,
“This is one of a growing number of Jews that are Jew haters and join the company of George Soros, Oliver Stone, Jon Stewart, et. al. I hope this man is never allowed into Israel and that the jewish community rejects him just as did with traitor Gold stone.”
This is not so much a comment on your reaction to Rosenberg, but a general reaction to the way that any Jew, who decides to speak out against Israel is immediately labeled as being all kinds of bad things. I do not agree with Rosenberg, but am amazed of the level of maliciousness this guy faces due to a few words written in an article.
It is the same every time someone decides to criticize Israel and it’s occupation of the West Bank. I am just so f’ing tired of reading the same comments over and over that I had to react. In your eyes I am probably also a self hating Jew. I am a Jew, an Israeli Jew. Proud to be part of Israeli society, proud of what Israel has accomplished in only 63 years. There are so many things to be proud of, but certainly also a number of things to be ashamed of. Look at the religious fanatics that live in the occupied territories. They are not one ounce better than their Muslim counterparts. Hatred is what carries these people, and they are the real threat to Israel. Not Jon Stewart, Oliver Stone or even M.J Rosenberg. At least they can see things in a somewhat balanced light. The true enemies of Israel come from within. They are the ones giving Israel a really bad name. Turn on the Tv and you see a guy wearing a long black suit and a fur hat in the middle of a desert. Talk about being a lunatic. These people are just leaches on Israeli society. No army service, no jobs. Just sit around and brainwash themselves while receiving handouts from the people who are truly the ones that made Israel what it is today. These are the people you should call traitors. These are the people who are ruining it for everyone else.
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Daniel Katzen
8:15 am
Jul 19, 2011
Jonathan: I appreciate your observations about criticism of Israel not necessarily being the thoughts of a “self-hating Jew”. My biggest complaints were based on the lack of truth and facts to back up Rosenberg’s claim that delegitimization of Israel is a myth, or a “silly” exercise in international politics. There is a very real drive by anti-Zionists to make the existence of the one Jewish state in the world illegitimate, which is a real and tangible danger to the future of Jews and Israelis. This leads to the spurious assumption that there are no real enemies of Israel, or of Jews. This is a dangerous conclusion for both “self-hating” Jews and regular ones.
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Jonathan
8:29 am
Jul 19, 2011
Daniel: Thanks for your comment. I am aware that I went on a bit of a rant there, just had to get some stuff off my mind.
I completely agree with you, there are definite threats to Israel, and we have an interest if not a duty to fight this any way we can. As I wrote I am not a fan of what Rosenberg wrote, but just don’t like the finger pointing “we” have a tendency to use as an argument. I am curious as to what constitutes a “self-hating Jew”. For too many years we have been to quick with the “anti-semite” label, and that has had the effect that people are not taking it seriously anymore. It’s like “the boy who cried wolf”. I am merely very cautious when throwing labels around and really resent when labels are put on me because i have the “audacity” to criticize something Israel does. Again I did not get angry because of the criticism of Rosenberg, It was the way he was criticized that set me off.
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Elder’s Takedown of MJ Rosenberg «ScrollPost.com
4:20 pm
Jul 19, 2011
[...] campaign to de-legitimize and ultimately replace Israel with another Arab state (or two.) [HonestReporting also had a response to the same article.]Source: Israel BlogsPublished: 19 July 2011Site: [...]
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David Feder
6:14 pm
Jul 19, 2011
As much as I sincerely support the trial and public execution of traitors like Rosenberg — not for speaking their minds but for promoting the hate speech that fuels terrorist acts and results in the murder of Jews — I also protest the non-self-loathing Secularists who have a vocal and public Zero-tolerance policy toward any religious Jew. We are not all “Jewish Taliban” or “fanatics” or nut jobs or whatever epithet you like to delegitimize us with. Most of us happen to be just Jews. Jews who believe in Torah. We don’t throw rocks, we don’t spit at women – those types might dress like Jews but they are no more correct than the ones who eat ham and cheese on Yom Kippur. A jackass is a jackass and should be pilloried for the behavior, not the corrupted version of religion they use to give them carte blanche for being a jackass. Guess what? Someone who throws stones at someone or spits on someone is going to do it no matter what garb they wear or what excuse they use. Reminds me of the story of the protest where one of the guys is vehemently flinging Molotov cocktails and the guy next to him says, “I really am impressed with your dedication to our cause!” “What dedication?” the guy replies, “I just like watching things burn!”
So please, you who criticize the actions of the few warped jackasses, don’t stoop to their level. Decry an action or a person, not Torah nor all practicing Jews. That is unjust and wrong.
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Jonathan
5:46 am
Jul 20, 2011
David Feder: Point taken, I agree. I am one of the people who on this have openly criticized religious Jews, mostly because that level of religiousness (black suits, black hats, peyot…you get my point) scares me. That leads me to this question. How does one dress Jewish? are you referring to dressing like in Eastern Europe a couple of hundred years ago? Is that defined as dressing Jewish? I do not remember black suits and hats being mentioned in any book? Or fur hats even. I do not think I have seen any mention about women shaving off their hair only to put on a wig that is actually nicer than their natural hair.
Anyway, back to my point. I simply cannot understand that level of dedication or submission even. I am aware that not all religious and practicing Jews are the same. And most people behave themselves. But then you have these Naturei Carta people and the Me’a Shearim crowd, who are just plain crazy and no better than their counterparts belonging to other faiths. These are primarily the ones I am referring to when I show a zero tolerance attitude towards religious Jews. I am sorry if you feel struck by my words, but if you do not feel like a part of the people I am mentioning then you probably are not and you have nothing to be offended by.
A funny thing in what you write is that the “other” religious people are wrong. Ironically they probably feel the same way about you. And so does every group who adhere to a certain level of religious awareness. You can all sit around and point fingers at each other saying that they do not believe the way they should. Do you see the irony? I prefer to think that if religion is so hard to understand, and there are so many ways of doing it right/wrong, who needs it?
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Brent Pudsey
8:04 pm
Jul 19, 2011
Rasmey needs a more accurate and clear picture of the current situation in Israel. He needs to realize that Israel does promote peace.
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