They Don’t Like Us – Should We Care?
May 17, 2012 15:09 by Simon PloskerThis op-ed by Simon Plosker, HR’s Managing Editor, was originally published at The Times of Israel.
The latest annual Country Ratings Poll of the BBC World Service makes for grim reading. ThatIsrael finds itself in such dubious company as Iran, Pakistan and North Korea in this global popularity survey is shocking but unsurprising based on the results of previous years.
That unfavorable opinions of Israel have worsened since the 2011 survey should, however, be a cause for concern. The past year has thankfully not witnessed any events of the magnitude of the Mavi Marmara or Operation Cast Lead where Israel was the recipient of a torrent of negative coverage.
Yet, the proportion with negative views of Israel amongst those surveyed by the BBC poll increased by three points to the damning figure of 50%.
Should we care? Absolutely.
Canada, under the premiership of Stephen Harper is considered to be Israel’s best friend in the world at this present time, even more so than the US. Yet 59% of Canadians surveyed in the BBC poll harbor negative opinions of Israel. So evidently, it’s not the Canadian government that is affecting the Canadian public’s perceptions towards Israel.
Likewise, countries such as the UK and Germany that, while sometimes critical of Israeli policies, are still considered to be broadly supportive, show negative polling of 68% and 69% respectively.
If it’s not governments that are influencing public opinion on Israel, then the most obvious probability is that of negative or biased coverage of Israel in the media.
Israel’s enemies, including even terrorist organizations, recognized long ago that the modern battlefield is not only dependent on guns, tanks or aircraft but also on cameras and the written word.
Twenty-seven per cent of those with negative views of Israel answered that “how Israel treats its own people” was the most important factor for them. Israel is certainly not a police state which terrorizes its citizens. So how could the reality of Israel as a democratic society become so distorted?
The drip feed of stories of conflict or on Israel’s numerous imperfections is impossible to ignore while an incident such as that of IDF Lt. Col. Eisner striking a pro-Palestinian activist with his M16 only serves to reinforce this narrow perception of Israel.
Of course, in any democracy, it is the duty of the elected government to represent the will of the people. What will happen, then, if public opinion on Israel continues to be out of kilter with the opinions and policies of the political echelon? It doesn’t bear thinking about. If governments were genuinely representative of their publics, then Israel would be in severe trouble.
At what point will Israel become a political hot potato that no politician would dare express support for at the risk of alienating the voters?
They Don’t Like Israel – Should We Care? | The Conservative Papers
7:45 am
May 20, 2012
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BUTSeriously
8:10 am
May 20, 2012
“Israel would not be the country it is today if it were not for Europe,”
False. America’s presidents initiated the re-establishment of Israel some 200 years before. Britain resented this. When U.S. helped Britain in W.W.I & II, America was able to impact on Britain and the Balfour was issued.
Britain showed her colors with the corruption of the Balfour, carving off “80″ of a tiny land, calling this a “Historic compromise” – after creating 22 Islamic states which never existed before – all of them created in secret with no Mandate – and none were voted in the UN. Britain acted worse than the Nazis here and Europeans will find any manipulation they can muster to circumvent this crime.
Don’t wait for Brits to march against the Governments and HMAS – they are too bust with serial 2-state demands in Israel.
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BUTSeriously
8:19 am
May 20, 2012
“” Of course Europeans have done a lot of bad things. But to smear them as ‘m’ and you do is no more acceptable than what the far right or the far left do to Jews. ”
Bad things are acceptable. Evil, Nazi stuff is not. There is nothing worse than throwing the Jews under the bus at the helm of the Holocaust after a legal Mandate was issued before the world. Millions of lives were destroyed and this goees on today with every act of terrorism, including 9/11: Britain was and remains responsible. Of course “ALL’ Brits are guilty and not a single one innocent. Critical mass applies: there were some good Germans too under the Nazis.
Britain should be subject to a Nuremberg II Trial – and honest Brits must take up this challenge.
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BUTSeriously
8:26 am
May 20, 2012
“BTW who do you think wars the first Euro to land in the New World; yep a Jew and so was his whole crew. I’ll give you a hint, his initials were CC.”
He didn’t get lost either. America was ordained when Isabela proclaimed about the Jews:
“BETTER TO DESTROY THEIR BODIES AND SAVE THEIR SOULS”.
Gee, thanks. Isabela is regarded as a Saint in Europe. Israel prevails not by her strong arm but by the errors of those who hate her for naught but their own crimes.
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BUTSeriously
9:36 am
May 20, 2012
“I do not blame this generation of Germans for the Nazi atrocities.”
The law, “ONLY THE SOUL THAT SINS SHALL PAY- THE SON SHALL NOT PAY FOR THE FATHER NOR THE MOTHER FOR THE DAUGHTER” is from the Hebrew bible. However, it all depends how the following generation behaves. Examine Britain – not only are her crimes not acknowledged, but she is obsessed in upping the ante, fostering serial 2-states as her follow-up with Heil Hitler salutes at the UN – and the British people silent of it.
Israel has proven herself when forgiveness is the issue – she reconciled with German and has good relations in record time. With Britain it is not about blaming innocent folk but confronting those who are fully blame worthy today. Britain is the world’s most antisemitic western nation today – which Brit is unaware of it?
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BUTSeriously
9:47 am
May 20, 2012
“But to talk of restoring the Balfour is nonsensical. In 1947, Israel came into being on the vote of the UN, which changed the facts on the ground.”
That is ridiculous. The facts on the ground were changed because of the Balfour corruption – not by natural occurrences. Your premise says that the land carved off should be empty, and if it was not then it makes the Balfour’s corruption AOK. Disagree; the crime prevails, and it had a genocide goal, affirmed by Britain’s follow-up actions and her stance today.
Britain is to blame here and a Nuremberg Trial will resolve it. Its also a folly to think this will never happen. It is happening despite the silence of Christians and Christian nations – they gave an in their face Judas immunity only because it was a Christian nation. Britain looks like the first Christian nation to fall – 80% of her land is being taken by the shariah people. A Nuremberg Trial is happening as we speak, whether the UN does it or not.
YOU SHALL SURLY REBUKE.
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BUTSeriously
10:00 am
May 20, 2012
BRITAIN IS THE CAUSE OF 9/11.
Britain was given a caretaker role after the Islamic Ottoman empire fell. Britain was not – repeat NOT – given the role to create only Islamic states in Arabia, or to hand such vast lands, 22 states, to one Muslim family, with no conditions attached – as seen in the Balfour, where the rights of other people are protected. The Islamic empire had been conquered. So why do what Britain did?
This was not done for no other reason than for 30 barrels of oil and vile antisemitism. Britain legitimized the premise the entire Middle-east is Islamic. Britain legitimized all terror actions in all parts of the world, including the gassing of the kurds and the persecution of Christians in Lebanon and Coptcs of Egypt. Britain’s abstention from voting at the UN is a telling one. Worse is the silence of the British people.
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Robert Barzelay
10:17 am
May 20, 2012
Shocking how some people here react/comment on this important issue of Israel-bashing.
The ridiculous arrogance of some, the falling back on our Tanakh, the references to broken deals with Brits, Palestinians, Turks, or whomever. Incidents that happened 2000, 150, 70 or 40 years ago. WHO CARES? We live TODAY and have quite a serious problem TODAY, so stop dragging all kinds of arguments and accusations to the table. Stop the name-calling, especially playing the Holocaust and anti-Semitism cards all the time. The whole world is not rotten, and, whether you like it or not, we all live on one and the same planet.
In my work around this globe I am occasionally (the past 10-20 years more often than not) confronted with people, institutions and companies that simply don’t like us, to say it nicely. Time and time again I have to swallow my pride, count to ten, and smile, after Israel or Jews have been dragged through the mud again, right in my face. Some even have the tenacity to do so, knowing where I’m from. But oftentimes, in so-called “sensitive” countries, people don’t know my background, and I have to act like a coward to save my skin, just because I don’t like the idea of being dragged in front of a camera beneath an Islamic Jihadist banner before being decapitated.
What makes Israel tick is its people’s strength and perseverance to export its know-how and products, sometimes in awkward circular, secret routes. Israel is an exporting nation, not just a start-up nation. We all survive based on that export. NOT by just studying Torah. NOT by living east of the green line, as one nitwit so proudly projected on this site. NOT by an attitude of “let the world drop dead, I do what I want”.
It’s the shocking truth that those that do NOT contribute to Israel’s economy, to the contrary, those that actually suck money from the nation for their selfish selves, are the ones that give fodder to Israel-bashers. The arrogant, presumptuous know-it-alls, sitting back, doing nothing except for adding insult to injury, creating fertile ground for sneaky media and judicial attacks on our nation and its citizens.
NOBODY cares that Israel is the start-up nation, has most non-US companies listed on the Nasdaq, that there are so many Jewish Nobel Prize winners, inventors, do-gooders and good-doers. That we are supposedly “the chosen people” (chosen for what: hatred and persecution?). There are thousands of beliefs, some monotheistic, some polytheistic, some without a Theos at all. What makes so many Jews believe that ours is the one and only one? That on its own is already a slap in the face of other peoples, clans, tribes and groups that have other convictions. You don’t win an argument or battle by insisting you’re right, and the other is wrong.
So, I kindly ask those that see all and any non-Jew as their nemesis that needs to be destroyed: JUST SHUT UP!!! Stick to what you’re doing, if you are doing anything fruitful at all. Don’t destroy this great country by your superciliousness.
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BUTSeriously
11:13 am
May 20, 2012
Bowing to all and everything does not help. Not before, not now. Its just going to get worse. Tomorrow, they will call Muslims as the real Zionists and a 5-state as a 2-state.You have not suggested any means which helps in any way. Waiting for antisemites to change their skin is futile. I suggested real means to counter it: pursue non-Islamic and non-Christian nations and promote a 2-state in Egypt. Forget about Europe completely.
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Robert Barzelay
11:31 am
May 20, 2012
@BUTSeriously. Who’s talking about bowing to anybody or waiting for anything to happen? You’re completely missing the point. Attacking and accusing people get you nowhere. Isolating yourself from the world is counterproductive. Saying you’re right all the time only antagonizes people. Continually referring to the past is futile.
What to do? Be smart. Create. Build. Listen and react intelligently. Try and understand “the other side” (you don’t have to agree), and explain your position. Control your body language and voice. Learn how to use the right combination of your IQ and EQ.
It’s a great myth that being so-called tough, indifferent to the world/people around you, rude, loud-mouthed and arrogant will teach “the other side” a lesson. BS!!!
It’s bad enough that “the cool Israeli” drives like that, but acting like that in the international business community has gotten us where we are right now. And has me struggling creating income for the State of Israel, trying to overcome the utter destruction of “the ugly Israeli”.
Get off your high horse. Your “solutions” will culminate in disaster.
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BUTSeriously
11:52 am
May 20, 2012
Absolutely you are talking bowing. My dif with you is bowing is fine – if it helps. Jews and Israel are on the verge of a dark precipice via Europe and Islam and there is no let up in sight. Brits may not like my views, but they damn know I am right and honest about it. There is sure to be a host of massacres of Jews in Europe, and be assured any assistance is not because Europe wants to help Jews: Europe is only now seeing how they are targeted as opposed to Jews only. Israel must start abandoning Europe & Islamist states, not for isolation, but for survival. Britain calls Jordan a chum – I call Jordan Israel’s worst Arab enemy.
Its restore the Balfour or goodbye. For Israel and the world’s sake. Its not the past now negated.
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Yona
2:31 pm
May 20, 2012
It doesn’t seem to me that Robert Barzelay should be “bowing to each and everyone”.
He has had the considerable courage to stand up against the aggressive, bullying, undereducated louts and their sheepish followers who control these pages. But it is utterly useless. They will never begin to understand that it is types like them who antagonize the whole world.
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Denis MacEoin
4:31 pm
May 20, 2012
Yona, Robert, Warren, and anyone else taking a stand against these bullies (none of who seem to have names), thank you for restoring some balance on this forum. Most days of the week, I get into arguments online with heated anti-Israel types, and I have lost track of how much I have written to support Israel. But debating on this forum is the first time I have run into Jews/Israelis (?) who are every bit as obnoxious in their way as my Muslim and far-left antagonists elsewhere. I find that disturbing, as I’m sure you do. Anyone who makes their own supporters back off has a lot to answer for.
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m
7:50 pm
May 20, 2012
You wrote
“Of course Europeans have done a lot of bad things. But to smear them as ‘m’ and you do is no more acceptable than what the far right or the far left do to Jews”
MACEOIN, I asked you to quote WHERE and WHEN I said anything of that nature about Euros and YOU DID NOT. I’m still waiting. I simply said, what BUTSeriousy said was NOT bigotry. It may have struck a chord with you and was offensive to some fragile egos BUT IT WAS NOT BIGOTRY.
When did I personally smear Europe; I’m of european heritage myself. The ONLY thing I said about Europe in this entire topic was that Scotland was very accepting of Jews and was the only Euro country that was. Then I simply made a comment about a hybrid language used in Scotland based on Yiddish and Broad Scots. THAT WAS ALL I SAID ABOUT EUROPE. Then I simply defended BUTSeriously after you called him/her a bigot.
BWT, I’m Canadian.
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Denis MacEoin
11:25 pm
May 20, 2012
@m: You’re right, you weren’t the poster I meant to refer to. It was, in the first instance, ‘mike’, then ‘BUTSeriously’ joined in and you came in somewhere as well. But my apologies for making that slip.
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BUTSeriously
2:45 pm
May 20, 2012
“it is types like them who antagonize the whole world.”
Enlighten us. What type antagonized Britain to annul a Mandate it accepted, the annulment coincidentally aligning with the discovery of oil, then issue the WHITE PAPER and now support serial 2-states in the same land? What type would not antagonize for such deeds and what is the definition of covert genocide?
Its a fair question and the fundamental things apply. I am imagining what kind of world we would have today if all states in the M/E were subject to all nations voting at the UN, as opposed secret deals. As it is, the only legitimate nation in the region is antagonizing the world and the Brits are fuming.
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Robert Barzelay
2:49 pm
May 20, 2012
@Yona. You hit the nail on the head. Exactly right: it’s utterly useless to attempt any discourse with some on these pages. They live in their own world, oblivious of what’s truly happening on this globe. The only time they come out of their cocoons is to stoop to name-calling and wild accusations, and then slowly retreat into their by us taxpayers subsidised environs. The know-it-alls that lack any emotional intelligence. They are irrelevant, but very damaging for whatever reputation Israel still has.
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BUTSeriously
3:41 pm
May 20, 2012
I’m not anti-Brits and raised on a British culture. Britain made the modern world with talcum powder, The Industrail Revolution and the English language. But Britain does not like Jews and we can’t pretend forever. When things don’t work out for such a long time its time to move on elsewhere. If a Brit denies antisemitism test him with the Balfour.
What is not realized is Israel cannot accept the Balfour even if they begged her to. The Hebrew bible, which is also a substantially historical document, forbids the taking of even a cubit by Jews of land of another peoples and Jordan was never part of Israel. And Jews have never occupied another peoples’ land in all their 4000 year history – Israel is very unlike Britain’s history. Its not about land or Israel or Palestinians – its only about Britain’s deeds and her shameless denial of Jerusalem and Hebron – birthplaces of Judaism.
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BUTSeriously
4:29 pm
May 20, 2012
I see the problems faced by Jews is because they had an edge over most other peoples, mainlybecause of their majestic laws and accumulations by osmosis with other nations. This is not meant to be haughty, although I acknowledge it ensures hatreds. Its not like cricket where if one scores goals he is hailed – if its a Jew they cry of it.
One of favorite prose was of John Milton’s ON HIS BLINDNESS. The last verse really got me. Decades later I saw it in the Hebrew writings. Isaiah’s prose influenced Shakespeare. Britain was a savage place 2000 years ago when Rome invaded, yet it became the greatest nation of the past 500 years. I don’t hold that against her – I applaud it.
There is chosen by example only [Being a liht uto the nations], and there is chosen with no salvation no matter how nice one is, and there is chosen of its a blessing to kill the infidel. Choose your chosen carefully. it is inconceivable Britains do not understand this. But a cherished lie has become transcendent of a disdained truth. It looks like Jews are the losers in the short term, Christains & Muslims in the long term. Unless these two religions cease being a ‘subject to Jews’ belief system. They are in dire straits – both being mutually exclusive in history geography and belief – of the same space-time they focus on. Its certainly not the Jews who are the real victims here. Tell me how to reconcile and test me – I know not how.
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Yona
4:43 pm
May 20, 2012
Is there a psychiatrist on the plane? Please help!
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Denis MacEoin
4:46 pm
May 20, 2012
I have frequently referred to the injustice of creating Transjordan and the injustice of not making it the Palestinian state. I have Jewish friends in Hebron and have been there, and I would favour its becoming a Jewish city again, but I don’t see how that can happen, given the sheer size of the Arab population. I would settle for safety for the Jewish population, space for it to grow, and the complete return of the Ma’aret Ha-Machpelah. I wouldn’t make it a sticking point for peace, but then I don’t believe the Palestinians want peace, except on their own terms.
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m
7:41 pm
May 20, 2012
Dennis you wrote
” I don’t believe the Palestinians want peace, except on their own terms.”
And those terms have been well defined; the utter destruction of Israel, ZERO Israel and all Jews on the planet murdered.
Now what sane Israeli/Jew can pass up a deal like that?
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Denis MacEoin
3:21 am
May 21, 2012
Those are exactly the terms, as everybody knows. Why did you need to spell it out as though you had just come up with them.
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BUTSeriously
4:35 pm
May 20, 2012
“I have lost track of how much I have written to support Israel. ”
Enumerate. Did you at any time refer to the Balfour corruption and serial 2-state demands? If not you have wasted your breath and much cyber space. Nothing else matters. Israel is a dead duck w/o Jerusalem and Hebron. Period.
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Robert Barzelay
5:05 pm
May 20, 2012
@ Denis MacEoin: great to see there are sane people here that are as concerned as I am about the insanity of some, patients from the cuckoo’s nest. It’s like talking to the wall with some of them, nitwits that hide behind the most obscure aliases. This BUTSeriously goof is totally obsessed with Balfour, Brits, Jordan, someone with the initials CC and dead ducks. I’ve seen worse patients, but this one is quite peculiar. The problem is that these types are dangerous to mankind.
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Yona
5:49 pm
May 20, 2012
And talcum powder is in the same range of importance as the industrial revolution and the English language ( see 3.41 pm). It reminds one of the surrealist nonsense poetry in the 1920s.
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Zilberwasser
9:25 pm
May 20, 2012
I think that BUTSeriously makes some very good points re: the 20th century history of the region and why Jews shouldn’t care if they like us or not.
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Denis MacEoin
11:30 pm
May 20, 2012
@m: Tell mw what makes you more dependable than any historian or Columbus expert? The most any historian or biographer can venture, given the present state of our knowledge, is that CC may just possibly have been Jewish or had Jewish connections. It is ahistorical and academically unsound of you to make that attribution positive. He is more likely not to have been a Jew. When you find a document in Genoa or elsewhere that shows his ancestry with absolute clarity, and the document is proved authentic, and it is clear that he was a Jew, then – and only then – may you dare show your face at a historical conference and announce this to the world.
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m
12:05 am
May 21, 2012
Alas, I am but a lowly Canuck software engineer and not a historian but I have done a modicum of research and my references (quite a while back) did suggest Chris was a Yid, albeit a Crypto one.
Now, apart fron historical veracity, I wonder why a “Christian” back during the Inquest, would crew his fleet with Jews. Just doesn’t seem likely; just the opposite.
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Denis MacEoin
3:23 am
May 21, 2012
@m: I don’t wish to seem rude, but those of us who do serious hasbara can do without people like you, who mess things up for us and for Israel. You are a software engineer. Why not stick with that. You don’t have a clue how to do history. It is much more difficult than any form of engineering. Use your skills to help Israel in other ways.
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m
7:59 pm
May 20, 2012
This site is beginning to really annoy me. Half the time I cannot even see the comments that were directed at me in order to reply to them.
Meh, this is for WARREN who will at dome point read this.
Columbus WAS a crypto Jews. Of course he would have Christians references AND God forbid we credit anything extraordinary to a Jew eh.
And your comments about CC (as a Christian) “saving” Jewish sailors and that is the only reason they were with him, is pathetic. To me if anything, that is more proof he was really Jewish.
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BUTSeriously
1:44 am
May 21, 2012
100% Jewish: Columbus, all his mapsters, the U.S. Constitution, Nuclear power, Jesus, most of Elvis’ hit songs and denim jeans. That’s the way the mop flops. But let’s not dwell on that. Let’s also not mind serial 2-states in Palestine till there is none. Just one problem here:
But for Israel, the two king kongs would have to face each other. Please tell me of a more scary thought?
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m
11:28 pm
May 20, 2012
“Silverwater”
I agree that the time has come for Israel to stop worrying about what others think about them. I’ve said this B4, Israel is a wonder and marvel and has done more for other countries that most much larger countries. Who is the first to rescue ppl when devastating environmental phenomena occur; teeny Israel. Who does the rest of the West learn from; Israel. Who provides us with the most innovative inventions bar none; Israel. I can go on and on. What country on this planet provides AID and cash to their enemies; Israel (I do not see that as a smart thing, so Israel is not perfect). YET, when Israel needs to defend itself, she is still vilified.
My suggestion to Israel is to do what you need to do that is in your best interest just like ANY OTHER country would … period.
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Gábor Fränkl
12:29 am
May 21, 2012
A good piece, a worthwile piece a slightly encouraging piece (which is precisely it main aim I suppose), but I actually very much disagree with one aspect, one line and thought. That the UK and Germany are broadly supportive as you claim couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s pure self-defeating fantasy and wishful thinking, no more. At least tin the case of Britain, but also for Germany as well for a large extent, although not not as much perhaps as in Londonistan’s case…
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