Last week, I upset a lot of people by suggesting Zionists saw themselves as “chosen”. My words were badly chosen and poorly used, and I’m sorry for it. But accusations of antisemitism have also been intemperate. One can accept the right of Israel to exist, while still believing that the manner in which the nation was created – against the wishes of many of the people already living there, hundreds of thousands of whom became refugees – was problematic and made a contribution to Israel’s subsequent and terrible troubles. (This, in turn, does not imply that the violence against Israel has been either justified or deserved. It has done the Palestinian cause much damage, and rightly so.)
Nevertheless, it would be absurd to believe that Jewish people are any more or less capable of making geo-political miscalculations than anybody else, or any more or less likely to be called to account for them. Evidence from every corner of the world, throughout the ages, attests to the fact that such behaviour is all too typical of humans, as is reluctance to accept that such actions are bound to have their critics.
Deborah Orr’s response is revealing. Does she even know what she has been accused of?
Addressing charges of anti-Semitism, she says that “one can accept the right of Israel to exist.” Orr’s use of the third person leaves us wondering whether or not she does actually does accept Israel’s right to exist. In any case, this was never the issue and it is incredibly disturbing that Orr’s best defense against the charges against her is to concede that Israel may have the right to exist as if this lame concession should immunize her against the criticism she is facing.
Barry Berger
3:00 pm
Mar 05, 2013
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Kathleen Marion
3:09 am
May 02, 2013
A well thought out apology should have included a history lesson prior to writing the forced apology. She clearly does not understand that up until 1967 the people who were called Palestinians were Jews who have lived in the area for hundreds of years. Those so called refugees came from Jordan and became political pawns when they squatted on land that Jordan TOOK from Israel in 1948. When Israel fought back after being attacked by Jordan they won their land back in 1967, but the world continues to call the west bank, and other territories occupied, when in fact Jordan was the illegal occupier in the first place. She is just an empty headed moron who apologized because she got caught.
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Mr Paul Emmett
3:29 pm
Mar 06, 2013
Ms. Orr should be reminded that Martin Luther King, while addressing a group of students at Harvard stated that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. Was he trying to shut down debate?
Thousands of Arabs left Israel in 1948, but some of them stayed and prospered. Thousands of Jews left Arab countries and almost none of them stayed. Those who did are treated under Arab apartheid laws as dhimmis.
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2011 Media Bias Review | The Conservative Papers
1:24 am
Apr 04, 2013
[...] disgusting excuse for an “apology” that caused further outrage (page [...]
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Bill Narvey
4:05 pm
Apr 25, 2013
Letters to the editor to express disgust with Deborah Orr’s article and apology will have limited effect at best. Orr will continue to be published.
Perhaps the better way to discredit Deborah Orr and her ilk in the eyes of the public is for an historian with impeccable debating skills to openly challenge them to debates in public forums.
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phili
10:18 am
May 02, 2013
It occurs to me – if the ‘West Bank’ and so on can be referred to as occupied territories following their recapture by Israel, then surely the lands recaptured from Nazi Germany at the end of the Second World War (France, Belgium, etc) should also be included as ‘occupied territories’ too. For Orr and all there should be consistency!
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Barry Berger
11:35 am
May 02, 2013
To all those who are debating the term “occupied territories”, how about referring to the State of New York as the “Occupied Native American Territories of the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onandagas, Cayugas, Senecas, and Tuscaroras”?
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Kathleen Marion
4:08 pm
May 02, 2013
You’ve got the concept right now Barry, just be clear with the facts; the Jews are the ones who belong there, they are the ones that the land has belonged to for thousands of years. Not a made up, pretend group of people who are NOT indigenous to that land.
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Barry Berger
5:37 pm
May 02, 2013
My comment about the “State of NY as the “Occupied Native American Territories of the Mohawks, Oneidas, etc” was to illustrate the absurdity of talking about “occupied territories” – at least from a historical perspective. Those Native Americans are no more a “made up or pretend people” than are the Palestinians. Of course, from our history and perspective, Jews have an attachment if not a right to the Land of Israel in the broad sense. However, we need to make territorial concessions for our own (Israel’s) sake: 1) spiritually to retain our moral character and 2) security – enabling two separate states instead of one bi-national entity that would end the concept of a Jewish Homeland.
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Kathleen Marion
5:58 pm
May 02, 2013
Well Barry assuming you are Jewish, then the ONLY measure for spirituality is the Torah which states in Vayikra (Leviticus) 25:23 “‘The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers.” This is HaShem’s instruction to the Hebrews when given the land with Moses. Your spiritual barometer is cracked if you are use anything other than the Words of Adonai. You might also look into Amos 9:14-15; Yirmeyahu (Jeremiah) 16:14-18. You are either with Adonai or against him, and by your words your spirituality is very much against Adonai, but quite in tune with HaSatan.
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Kathleen Marion
6:05 pm
May 02, 2013
As far as security goes, Barry, I must assume you are either ignorant of the philosophy of the Arab nations and too young to know what history has proven over and over, or you are just plain in denial of the actualities in Israel. Golda Meir said in 1957 “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” Nothing much has changed since then. The Palestinian charter states that they will “drive the Jews into the seas”; the failure for peace lies with the Arab nations who refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist. How do you find security with people who think that way? How do you think you can be secure if they believe the only good Jew is a dead one?
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phili
5:57 pm
May 02, 2013
Hold on now! What have ‘territorial concessions’ achieved in the past? – rockets from Gaza come immediately to mind. Almighty God gave the Land now called Israel to the Jewish people for ever. Yes, parts of it have been given away to others – GB reneged on the Balfour Declaration – but Israel remains the Jewish homeland. Also, while the land has been known as Palestine (the name adapted from the name given by the Roman Empire as an insult) there were no ‘Palestinians’ until Yasser Arafat came up with the word in 1967.
Know also that the real reason why Islam wants to ‘own’ Jerusalem is because the Evil One has persuaded them that if they do then Jesus (Yeshua) will not return there. Wrong!
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Barry Berger
8:54 pm
May 02, 2013
Kathleen…Yes, I am Jewish … actually as Jewish as you profess to be, but I am afraid we are worlds apart! I am very confident that my spiritual barometer is intact. May Adonai open your heart and your brain. For me, this is the end of our exchange.
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Kathleen Marion
9:01 pm
May 02, 2013
Of course it is, because being accountable to the Torah and Adonai, who spoke it, is not part of the spiritual perimeter that you gauge yourself by. Your spirituality is a man made concept of bullshit and you have the audacity to tell me “May Adonai open my eyes?” Apparently your brain is so open it fell out of your head. May Adonai have mercy upon you!
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chanah
12:42 pm
May 15, 2013
We should not forget Egypt Sudan Syria Lebanon Iran Iraq Yemen etc. all of those countries are occupied territories by muslims /arabs today and even medina and mecca are occupied territories by arabs since both belonged mostly to Jews and non-muslims at the time of muhammad,
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Michelle Klatt
7:03 pm
May 23, 2013
We are dealing with a woman who has either no respect for history or is ignorant of it. Unfortunately her comments fuel an already raging nation looking for any excuse to terrorize a people and who have no regard for the beauty of life, my hope is she would no longer have a position and a voice to share her ignorance with those who will find strength and cause to carry out inhumane acts against Israel as a result of it or she would be forced to be re-educated on history and the deadly effects media can have on producing another Holocaust!
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