Last week, I upset a lot of people by suggesting Zionists saw themselves as “chosen”. My words were badly chosen and poorly used, and I’m sorry for it. But accusations of antisemitism have also been intemperate. One can accept the right of Israel to exist, while still believing that the manner in which the nation was created – against the wishes of many of the people already living there, hundreds of thousands of whom became refugees – was problematic and made a contribution to Israel’s subsequent and terrible troubles. (This, in turn, does not imply that the violence against Israel has been either justified or deserved. It has done the Palestinian cause much damage, and rightly so.)
Nevertheless, it would be absurd to believe that Jewish people are any more or less capable of making geo-political miscalculations than anybody else, or any more or less likely to be called to account for them. Evidence from every corner of the world, throughout the ages, attests to the fact that such behaviour is all too typical of humans, as is reluctance to accept that such actions are bound to have their critics.
Deborah Orr’s response is revealing. Does she even know what she has been accused of?
Addressing charges of anti-Semitism, she says that “one can accept the right of Israel to exist.” Orr’s use of the third person leaves us wondering whether or not she does actually does accept Israel’s right to exist. In any case, this was never the issue and it is incredibly disturbing that Orr’s best defense against the charges against her is to concede that Israel may have the right to exist as if this lame concession should immunize her against the criticism she is facing.
Stuart Leveson
8:19 pm
Nov 08, 2011
However you try to defend and justify yourself, your perception of ‘chosen’ is as perverted as your plainly anti semitic viewpoint. If anyone has a belief that they are chosen, it is the modern version of Muslims, who believe their ‘religion’ to be superior than any other and wish to convert the entire world to this doctrine. They openly state this, yet you remain silent.
How and why you are not prepared to see, consider and critcise THAT is truly perverse.
They constantly portray themselves as the ‘victims’, but Israel exists as a result of a mandate given by the UNITED NATIONS. They are not OCCUPIERS, but have been in these lands for almost 6 millenia, which is long, long before Muhammed ever existed. They are constantly subjected to physical attack from all sides, as well as political attack from countries who openly vow to wipe them off the face of the earth yet, unlike these aggressors who you fail to condemn, Israel does not export it’s violence outside of it’s borders, unlike Muslims and they only resort to measures defending itself, which wouldn’t be necessary if they ceased to be attacked.
There are fabulous riches in the Middle East and the squalor constantly portrayed, is a total distortion of life as it really can be.and often is. It suits those factions in the area to portray themselves as poor downtrodden slaves who cannot have a better life because of those ‘damned’ Israelis They have been and continue to be, given billions in aid, yet their people are still ‘starving’ and living in squalor. Have you ever asked why that is?, Yet they can find money to buy rockets and bombs? It’s because it’s politically expedient for them to be seen this way and until people like you stop distorting the real truth and report in a more unbiased fashion, they’ll continue to garner sympathy that they rarely deserve.
If you are going to report on the area, then at least be objective, take a look at the map of the entire region and see the extent to which tiny Israel is surrounded by massive hostility. It is totally unnecessary as, for decades, Egypt and Jordan have proved that they can live peacefully with it’s neighbour .
Stop giving the aggressors the ammunition they feed on to gain a support they don’t deserve. All they have to do is recognise the sovereign State of Israel, spend their resources on their own people instead of trying to destroy someone else’s. When that happens, perhaps some fairness will pervade across the way things are reported. .
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Odette Jones
6:35 pm
Nov 16, 2011
As a Gentile Christian Zionist I was especially interested in your comments on Debbie Orr’s ‘Apology’ with regard to the Land of Israel and their ‘ occupation ‘ of their own land . Whatever Israel does will always be wrong according to those who are coming against GOD’s purposes and plans ‘ who neither slumbers nor sleeps ‘ It was no surpise to me when I saw a video where IDF soldiers saw ‘ Angels with Swords ‘ during the 6 day war in June 1967 , and is widely known amongst the Christian community ( those that support Israel ) that God succesfully fought Israel’s battles for them in 6 days and HE rested on the 7th . May the LORD
always bless and protect Israel .
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Mr. Light-Bright
4:15 am
Nov 09, 2011
One of the greatest issue concerning “anti-semitizem/racism,” is the fact no one wants to be associated(accused) with it!
Humans are very prideful and some hold on to that pride even if they must trade off: honour, dignity, honesty etc… (choose your poison). The choice for trade for retaining pride, is according to what you are willing to sacrifice, that will achieve the goal in the given situation.
Anyways this Deborah Orr, surely does not process through WHY there is a term called “anti-semitizem” in the first place. Everyone needs to do a self assessment at times. A good example of self assessment is when you get the pro-palestinian world view stating “ISRAEL IS HELD TO A DOUBLE(higher) STANDARD” that my friends is honest reflection at it’s finest. She just had to admit something, but she admits nothing.
“Nevertheless, it would be absurd to believe that Jewish people are any more or less capable of making geo-political miscalculations than anybody else” … The issue was equating racism to israelis who by the way are apart of the DEMOCRATIC Zionist leadership (who’s power is in the people).
Hot debate. What do you think?
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The End
3:45 am
Nov 27, 2011
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A Year of Dishonest Reporting — Why The Guardian Won | The Conservative Papers
6:37 am
Dec 14, 2011
[...] made a mealy-mouthed apology, but readers’ editor Chris Elliott acknowledged the presence of anti-Semitism in The Guardian, [...]
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Hot Content: Your Top Five Most Viewed Stories of Bias Against Israel in 2011 | The Conservative Papers
10:53 am
Dec 28, 2011
[...] the original article generated a huge amount of anger, Orr’s pathetic excuse for an apology helped to generate the largest number of emails we’d seen all year. So much so that The [...]
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BARRY G KOHAN
11:54 pm
Dec 28, 2011
Dear Debbie, your comments and the mind set of the Guardian prove what I have always thought! The printed word of the Guardian is best used to wrap ” fish and Chips ” in !!
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Moses
7:30 pm
Jan 09, 2012
Israel is given billions in aid every year. Why? Beats me. I guess it must be a chosen people thing. Geez, slap on antisemitism onto something why don’t ya. It seems like a nice way to get away with murder.
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al-Mohareb
9:41 pm
Feb 07, 2012
We give billions to Islamic nations. And they get away with genocide — against Assyrians, against Copts, against Black Africans, against Kurds, against Berbers, against Bahais, against Ahmadiyyah, against Sikhs and Parsis and Hindus, against Bengalis, against Timorese, against Papuans, against Kafir Kalash, against Baluchs, against Ossetians,…Need I go on?
“Narrated Abu Huraira: The Verse: “You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.” means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.”
http://www.muslimway.org/content/view/8323/38/
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